TeaTimeSunday
TEA TIME in L.A. THE BRONZE / 3.20-5.22.02
RESTORED ARCHIVE OF DELETED FORUM POSTS (NO LINKS OPERATIVE)
BOKE
TEA TIME in L.A. 3/28 (7-8 PM Bronze Time) "Sonnet School For Slayers?"


Welcome to TEA TIME in L.A. (7-8 PM Bronze) . . . where we daily polish our pointy tongues by talki
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:00 PM

Yes, once again it's Tea Time in Santa Monica . . .

To understand what is the Hellmouth is going on here <smile>
(or rather, why) read . . .

   TODAY'S SONNET(S): TRAINING: Sonnet School For Slayers
           http://www.buffy.com/bronze_posts.jsp?tid=50974


TEA TIME RULE: All posts should be in formal verse.
Preferred verse forms:
   HAIKU - 3 lines, 5/7/5 syllables
   BLANK VERSE - unrhymed lines of iambic pentameter
   IAMBIC COUPLETS - rhymed consecutive lines with iambic meter
   IAMBIC QUATRAINS - 4 lines of iambic rhymed ABAB
   SHAKESPEREAN (ENGLISH) SONNET - 3 quatrains, and a couplet (ABAB CDCD EFEF GG)

   LIMERICKS - are discouraged <g> but if you're in the mood

TEA TIME hour is . . .
  4-5 PM in Los Angeles
  7-8 PM in New York City and in the Bronze
  12-1 AM in London (11PM-Midnight from 3/31-4/7)
  10-11 AM in Sydney (9-10AM after 3/31 due to U.S. Daylight Savings Time)

For Tea Time hour, you may consider me your "Watcher" <smile> . . .
Let's get those iambic feet kicking! <g>


you speak



Responses


*Sigh*
Posted by: glow - Mar 29, 2002, 1:51 AM 1 of 36

I really shouldn't have read this so late at night. I think I'm going cross-eyed. Instead I will copy what you've so kindly left for me and come back to it another time. Maybe I'll even buy that book you mentioned. I should also peruse my Shakespeare signet classics text from University. It's got all of Shakespeare's sonnets. Perhaps if I read them aloud many times it will sink in like some sort of osmosis.

On a sad note, I will not be able to attend tea time tomorrow (Friday) and Saturday due to my unmotivating part time job. :o( I'm sorry to miss out on all the fun. Hopefully, if you post Sunday, I will be able to attend. :o)

Until then I bid you adieu

Adieu

*glow*



after hours follow-up to glow (part 3)
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 29, 2002, 1:19 AM 2 of 36

IAMBIC PENTAMETER WRITING RULE OF THUMB (one hand, actually <g>):
As you are trying out a possible iambic pentameter line . . . say each
syllable as you "twitch" each finger of one hand . . . starting from
your thumb and running to your little finger (do it twice, of course,
since you've got ten syllables.)

Every second finger should be an accent (BOOM), as you say it.
If the normal major accent is not on the right syllable of the word
(e.g., buf-FY instead of BUF-fy . . . note, we don't call her buf-FEE
but BUF-fee) then you'll need to come up with a different arrangement
of words.

AGAIN. And this is a BIG again. <smile> Remember that how you WRITE
formal verse (using the simplest, most normal accent) . . . is NOT
going to control completely the subtle shifts of accents as you
read the finished verse.

BUT of course I probably sound like I'm repeating myself. <grin>

THERE IS a sense of having to "get the hang" of shifting possibilities
around in your head until you get a flow that "works."

Some lines just "don't sound right" even if technically all the beats
are in the "correct" place.

NOTE: Having "the" (for example) as an accented syllable is usually not
a good choice.

<smile> I know I'm running in circles now.
For tonight, I'll shut up . . . but let me assure you again, I very much
appreciate the time you've given to "what I'm doing."

Night.



to glow (part 2) ka-BOOMing
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 29, 2002, 1:13 AM 3 of 36

Let's start with a key distinction:

Writing verse VS Performing/Reading/Pronoucing verse.

When reading verse aloud, all the things you say about stress
is absolutely right. (For the famous poet's version of your comments
see Robert Pinsky's little book "The Sounds of Poetry" (page 13).

NOW . . . as for the composing/writing part of iambic pentameter,
things get (trust me on this) much simpler.

When you are trying out various 10-syllable combinations of a line
you want to write . . . all you have to worry about is where
the major stress normally falls in a word.

You're NOT going to READ it out loud with the heavy sing-song of
ka-BOOM ka-BOOM ka-BOOM ka-BOOM ka-BOOM . . .

    . . . BUT, you are going to WRITE it using those accents as
   the constraints for writing your line.

REMEMBER: Formal verse at bottom is just a set of constraints.
The artistry is another matter. Beauty is another matter.

For the time being, I'm just trying keep the (simple) wriiting constraints
so they can be followed without getting lost in the variation of accent stress
during a reading/performance.


(continued in part 3)



after-hours follow-up to glow . . . very, very much appreciate you serious participation & feedback
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 29, 2002, 12:45 AM 4 of 36

Please don't let my quick getting to some point here fool you <smile>
I am far too pleased by your careful attention to learning to write
formal verse to want to jump right into technical details . . .
but I'll force myself. <g>

BOTTOM LINE: Bravo for your work.

Now . . . let's see if I can bring our POVs sufficiently into alignment
to get the ka-BOOM meshed with messier reality. <smile>

NOTE: I'll continue this note in a part 2 in a moment.



(after-hours follow-up) thanks, holywater
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 29, 2002, 12:28 AM 5 of 36

Regarding "inspiration" vs what is going on here <smile>
I direct your attention to the opening of my sonnet sequence

#4-7 WHY I POST IN SHAKESPEAREAN SONNETS (4-sonnet sequence)
       PART 1 - tid=48156
       PART 2 - tid=48152


======================================================


(1) ALTHOUGH I'VE LET THE MISPERCEPTION FLOAT
that I'm attempting poetry -- that's wrong.
You never write a poem to win a vote.
True poets rarely write a hit pop song.


A poem expresses with great sublety
a private view with metaphors unique.
Few readers will agree on what they see.
Great poetry's beyond a glib critique.


No -- what I'm writing is pure rhetoric, . . .


[SEE REST OF SONNET FOR FURTHER EXPLANATION]
==============================================

As for Tea Time . . . you might consider like speed chess. <smile>

In the broader view it has to do with the idea that an ORATOR like
Cicero did rhetorical exercises to keep his
mind and tongue ready to "do battle."

And in the context of online communities . . . let's just say that there
are several reasons to post in rhetorical verse in such
a context . . . and there are many benefits from a practical point
of view . . . which I won't go into tonight. <smile>

But in any case, good to see your friendly face . . . even if it
is an exceptionally lazy one. <ewg>

Later.



Don't want to upset you Forensic Poetry
Posted by: glow - Mar 28, 2002, 8:36 PM 6 of 36

I just have one more lesson about word stress and sentence stress that I learned in my Teaching Pronunciation class:

Rhythm:

Depending upon the rhythm in poetry, the rhythm will throw the word stress and sentence stress off.

Another very long note about word stress:

A syllable consists of a vowel or continuant sound (r, l, m, n) alone or combined with a consonant or consonants.

A word containing more than one syllable will then have one syllable with primary stress (stressed the most) and the other syllables may be marked as secondary stress (stressed, but not as strong as primary stress) or marked as unstressed.

An unstressed syllable has a reduced vowel. A reduced vowel is shorter, lower in pitch, softer and unclear. It kind of sounds like you're being puched in the stomach, like an 'unh' sound. The reduced vowel sound is called schwa and is represented by an upside down 'e' in the International Phonetic Alphabet. You may see this symbol in your dictionary, if it uses the IPA.

I only bring this up because I want to show you why I'm so confused about the stress in iambic pentameter. I know the sentence stress in iambic pentameter is unstressed-stressed (ka-BOOM), but the word stress doesn't jive with regualar speech patterns and rules. :o)

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Do you still feel the love? :o)

*glow*



my final thought
Posted by: holywater - Mar 28, 2002, 8:21 PM 7 of 36

to strive for excellence in verse is an admirable discipline,
but inspiration comes from the heart which has it's own purpose,
And it's own rules

Lovely sharing a cuppa as usual...



1) P.S. listening sure
Posted by: glow - Mar 28, 2002, 8:10 PM 8 of 36

Won't help me one bit, you see

I think I'm tone deaf

2) The rules of English

Stress I know quite well, but it's

The stress of poems

3) That don't mesh with the

regular patterns of speech

The rules are different

4) I know because I

took linguistics class times three

not boasting, just truth.

:o)

(All haikus for obvious reasons :o))



The END OF TEA TIME's now, and I go POOF
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 8:09 PM 9 of 36

But if you have some verse you'd like to leave
behind for me to ponder, please feel free.

I will check back around Bronze time midnight.

BLANK VERSE

Ta ta for now, folks.
Is there method to all this?
We shall see. Won't we? <smile>

HAIKU

POOF



oh goody
Posted by: holywater - Mar 28, 2002, 8:04 PM 10 of 36

so I'm free to throw paper aeroplanes at the back of the class then?
Maybe something will stick if I hang around long enough



Dear glow, as Tea Time gallops to an end
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 8:02 PM 11 of 36

one thing about iambic I would say:

The rhythm forces you to shift around
the thing you want to say until it "fits."

If this seems a strange waste of time, it's not.
It is a useful exercise for speech.



1) I teach ESL
Posted by: glow - Mar 28, 2002, 8:01 PM 12 of 36

grammatical suffixes

should never be stressed

2) PUNCHes is correct

Sorry it is not punchES

Because of E S.

:o)



The punishment for failing to conform
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:58 PM 13 of 36

to Tea Time rules is that you won't acquire
the secret of the Slayer Sonneteers.

Well, "what is that?" you ask. Well, I won't tell
until you get your exercises down.

<smile>

BLANK VERSE



I get the accent thing
Posted by: holywater - Mar 28, 2002, 7:54 PM 14 of 36

you've got to say it out loud,
So do I get chucked out yet or just a D-?



We all say Buffy's lovely, strong, and fun.
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:53 PM 15 of 36

We ALL say BUF-fy's LOVE-lly, STRONG, and FUN.



BLANK VERSE



PUNCH-es or punch-ES? / Glow, think how you say the word. / Put accent on BOOM.
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:49 PM 16 of 36

HAIKU IN TITLE LINE


BUF-fy or bufFY? / Dear glow, that is the question. / Put BUF on the BOOM.
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:46 PM 17 of 36

HAIKU IN TITLE LINE


1) Still here and trying
Posted by: glow - Mar 28, 2002, 7:43 PM 18 of 36

working on a quatrain dear

a dictionary...

2) I have with me here

But a question about stress

Just look at this please

(above form haikus)

For ALL, buFFY is LOvely, STRONG and FUN,

High KICKS, low PUNches, FLIPS and JUMPS, one STAKE

OR

kicks HIGH, punCHES low, FLIPS and JUMPS, one STAKE

(Iambic pentameter, I think. Incomplete quatrain I know, but I want to know if I'm on the right path)



Before I rose this morning from my bed
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:40 PM 19 of 36

I grabbed a legal pad, uncapped my pen

and pulled the sonnets linked to from my head.

To waste fresh inspiration is a sin. <smile>

IAMBIC PETAMETER QUATRAIN



The length, holy dear / is as long as discipline / maintains a strong grip. <smile>
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:36 PM 20 of 36

HAIKU IN TITLE LINE


OK
Posted by: holywater - Mar 28, 2002, 7:34 PM 21 of 36

This one is simplest,
But how can darkness be chained,
It will not last long



A note for glow, if you have not retired
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:32 PM 22 of 36

The secret of iambic accents is
the dictionary. Have you got one dear? <smile>

ka-BOOM ka-BOOM ka-BOOM ka-BOOM ka-BOOM

Wherever in a word the accent falls
you must align that accent with a BOOM.

BLANK VERSE

I hope that that is clearer than before.
And you will not go screaming from my door.

IAMBIC PETAMETER COUPLET



Dear holywater, formal verse is "old" . . .
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:27 PM 23 of 36

. . . and slayers, watchers, vampires -- yes, Spike, too. <g>

The discipline of slayers must be built
by doing things that are not natural.

BLANK VERSE



yesss
Posted by: holywater - Mar 28, 2002, 7:23 PM 24 of 36

No room for modern poetic form?
No ability to evolve...
I am the Dali of poetry,
All structures must be pulled down



glow said iambic feet get her confused.
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:20 PM 25 of 36

Does anybody else have problems, too.


BLANK VERSE



In Kendra's honor, let us raise a toast . . .
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:17 PM 26 of 36

. . . and to dear Mister Pointy. Perfect gift
from slayer to a slayer. Buffy's now.

BLANK VERSE



more haiku
Posted by: fiatlux - Mar 28, 2002, 7:14 PM 27 of 36

Fiatlux chuckles
F P's poems make her laugh
Now she leaves - goodbye!



I know I'm bad..........
Posted by: holywater - Mar 28, 2002, 7:14 PM 28 of 36

I'm under the dark power of Spike
and it is gone midnight here...
I can't help myself....
We had handcuffs tonight!



I think I'll also talk iambic lines
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:12 PM 29 of 36

the line above and this one is just that.

Blank verse is fine. That means without the rhyme.

Iambic is required in any case.

If you will count my syllables, there's ten
per line. And ev'ry accent is in place.

BLANK VERSE



Random Haiku in honor of Kendra
Posted by: fiatlux - Mar 28, 2002, 7:09 PM 30 of 36

Meet Mister Pointy
He really gets in your heart
And turns it to dust



Dear holywater! / Do you ask for exemption / from the rules for all?
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:09 PM 31 of 36

HAIKU IN TITLE LINE
(eyebrow raises)



Hi there
Posted by: holywater - Mar 28, 2002, 7:07 PM 32 of 36

Have I gone to the bottom of the class?
More enthusiasm for Spike/JM than iambric perameters?
I enjoyed your story about JM
I can't cope with verse
Can I just go for super-concise?
Think of it as a modern poetic rythym



Each topics your own. / If glow can quote in haiku / more power to you. <g>
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:07 PM 33 of 36

HAIKU IN TITLE LINE


What "IN" the Hellmouth / is going on at Tea Time? / He mistyped above. <g>
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:05 PM 34 of 36

NOTE: Haiku in title line


Glow takes a plush seat
Posted by: glow - Mar 28, 2002, 7:05 PM 35 of 36

Joining the esteemed FP

Topic: Buffy quips

:o)

(form in haiku)



FOOTNOTES: PREVIOUS TEA TIME RELATED LINKS
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:02 PM 36 of 36


3/20/02 Question for a Brit: When is Tea Time?-tid=47101
3/22/02 Quote Of Joss Whedon Post About The Bronze from 5/21/00 - tid=48092

PREVIOUS TEA TIME HOURS
3/20/02 tid=47264 #1 Tea Time! (Yanks steal tea time from the British)
3/21/02 tid=47816 #2 "Consructive Praise" (What Do We Hold Sacred?)
3/22/02 tid=48211 #3 Joss Whedon & The Bronze
3/23/02 tid=48693 #4 Giles' Daylight Savings Time (& naughty Sing-Along)
3/24/02 tid=49105 #5 DoubleMeat Morality
3/25/02 tid=49423 #6 If You Could Speak One Haiku To Joss
3/26/02 tid=49999 #7 The Powers That Tea Proclaim: Verse Only (Marsters Encounter)
3/27/02 tid=50583 #8 All Musical Buffy

PREVIOUSLY POSTED TEA TIME SONNETS:
#1: BEYOND "NORMAL AGAIN" - tid=46649
#2: RILEY & SAM'S GROWN-UP-ITUDE - tid=47071
#3: WHAT DO WE HOLD SACRED? - tid=47636
#4-7 WHY I POST IN SHAKESPEAREAN SONNETS (4-sonnet sequence)
       PART 1 - tid=48156
       PART 2 - tid=48152
#8 DOUBLEMEAT MORALITY - tid=49007
#9-12 ALL MUSICAL BUFFY (4-sonnnet sequence)
       PART 1 - tid=50573
       PART 2 - tid=50575

SATIRICAL SONG 3/23/02 Nude-Platoon Drill Sargeant Review of Season 6 ("Dead Things") - tid=48604

HAIKU SEQUENCE (OT) OSCAR "RACE" 3/25/02 - tid=49359




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