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TEA
TIME in L.A. 3/28 (7-8 PM Bronze Time) "Sonnet School For
Slayers?"
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Welcome to TEA TIME in L.A. (7-8 PM
Bronze) . . . where we daily polish our pointy
tongues by talki
Posted by: forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:00
PM
Yes, once again it's Tea
Time in Santa Monica . . .
To understand what is the
Hellmouth is going on here <smile>
(or
rather, why) read . .
.
TODAY'S SONNET(S):
TRAINING: Sonnet School For
Slayers
http://www.buffy.com/bronze_posts.jsp?tid=50974
TEA
TIME RULE: All posts should be in formal
verse.
Preferred verse
forms:
HAIKU - 3
lines, 5/7/5
syllables
BLANK VERSE -
unrhymed lines of iambic pentameter
IAMBIC COUPLETS - rhymed
consecutive lines with iambic
meter
IAMBIC QUATRAINS - 4
lines of iambic rhymed
ABAB
SHAKESPEREAN
(ENGLISH) SONNET - 3 quatrains, and a couplet
(ABAB CDCD EFEF
GG)
LIMERICKS - are
discouraged <g> but if you're in the
mood
TEA TIME hour is . . .
4-5 PM in Los
Angeles
7-8 PM in New York City
and in the Bronze
12-1 AM in
London (11PM-Midnight from
3/31-4/7)
10-11 AM in
Sydney (9-10AM after 3/31 due to U.S.
Daylight Savings Time)
For Tea
Time hour, you may consider me your "Watcher"
<smile> . . .
Let's get those iambic feet
kicking! <g>
you
speak
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Responses
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*Sigh*
| Posted by:
glow - Mar 29, 2002, 1:51
AM |
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I really shouldn't
have read this so late at night. I think I'm going
cross-eyed. Instead I will copy what you've so kindly
left for me and come back to it another time. Maybe I'll
even buy that book you mentioned. I should also peruse
my Shakespeare signet classics text from University.
It's got all of Shakespeare's sonnets. Perhaps if I read
them aloud many times it will sink in like some sort of
osmosis.
On a sad note, I will not be able to
attend tea time tomorrow (Friday) and Saturday due to my
unmotivating part time job. :o( I'm sorry to miss out on
all the fun. Hopefully, if you post Sunday, I will be
able to attend. :o)
Until then I bid you
adieu
Adieu
*glow*
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after hours follow-up to glow (part
3)
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 29, 2002, 1:19
AM |
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IAMBIC PENTAMETER
WRITING RULE OF THUMB (one hand, actually
<g>):
As you are trying out a possible iambic
pentameter line . . . say each
syllable as you
"twitch" each finger of one hand . . . starting
from
your thumb and running to your little finger (do
it twice, of course,
since you've got ten
syllables.)
Every second finger should be an
accent (BOOM), as you say it.
If the normal major
accent is not on the right syllable of the
word
(e.g., buf-FY instead of BUF-fy . . . note, we
don't call her buf-FEE
but BUF-fee) then you'll need
to come up with a different arrangement
of
words.
AGAIN. And this is a BIG again.
<smile> Remember that how you WRITE
formal
verse (using the simplest, most normal accent) . . . is
NOT
going to control completely the subtle shifts of
accents as you
read the finished verse.
BUT of
course I probably sound like I'm repeating myself.
<grin>
THERE IS a sense of having to "get
the hang" of shifting possibilities
around in your
head until you get a flow that "works."
Some
lines just "don't sound right" even if technically all
the beats
are in the "correct" place.
NOTE:
Having "the" (for example) as an accented syllable is
usually not
a good choice.
<smile> I
know I'm running in circles now.
For tonight, I'll
shut up . . . but let me assure you again, I very
much
appreciate the time you've given to "what I'm
doing."
Night.
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to glow (part 2)
ka-BOOMing
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 29, 2002, 1:13
AM |
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Let's start with a key
distinction:
Writing verse VS
Performing/Reading/Pronoucing verse.
When
reading verse aloud, all the things you say about
stress
is absolutely right. (For the famous poet's
version of your comments
see Robert Pinsky's little
book "The Sounds of Poetry" (page 13).
NOW . . .
as for the composing/writing part of iambic
pentameter,
things get (trust me on this) much
simpler.
When you are trying out various
10-syllable combinations of a line
you want to
write . . . all you have to worry about is
where
the major stress normally falls
in a word.
You're NOT going to READ it out loud
with the heavy sing-song of
ka-BOOM ka-BOOM ka-BOOM
ka-BOOM ka-BOOM . . .
. .
. BUT, you are going to WRITE it using those accents as
the constraints for writing
your line.
REMEMBER: Formal verse at bottom is
just a set of constraints.
The artistry is
another matter. Beauty is another matter.
For
the time being, I'm just trying keep the (simple)
wriiting constraints
so they can be followed
without getting lost in the variation of accent
stress
during a
reading/performance.
(continued in part
3)
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after-hours follow-up to glow . . . very,
very much appreciate you serious participation &
feedback
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 29, 2002, 12:45
AM |
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Please don't let my
quick getting to some point here fool you
<smile>
I am far too pleased by your careful
attention to learning to write
formal verse to want
to jump right into technical details . . .
but I'll
force myself. <g>
BOTTOM LINE: Bravo for
your work.
Now . . . let's see if I can bring our
POVs sufficiently into alignment
to get the ka-BOOM
meshed with messier reality. <smile>
NOTE:
I'll continue this note in a part 2 in a
moment.
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(after-hours follow-up) thanks,
holywater
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 29, 2002, 12:28
AM |
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Regarding
"inspiration" vs what is going on here
<smile>
I direct your attention to the opening
of my sonnet sequence
#4-7 WHY I POST IN
SHAKESPEAREAN SONNETS (4-sonnet
sequence)
PART
1 -
tid=48156
PART
2 - tid=48152
======================================================
(1)
ALTHOUGH I'VE LET THE MISPERCEPTION FLOAT
that I'm
attempting poetry -- that's wrong.
You never
write a poem to win a vote.
True poets rarely write a
hit pop song.
A poem expresses with
great sublety
a private view with metaphors
unique.
Few readers will agree on what they
see.
Great poetry's beyond a glib critique.
No -- what I'm writing is pure
rhetoric, . . .
[SEE REST OF
SONNET FOR FURTHER
EXPLANATION]
==============================================
As
for Tea Time . . . you might consider like speed chess.
<smile>
In the broader view it has to do
with the idea that an ORATOR like
Cicero did
rhetorical exercises to keep his
mind and
tongue ready to "do battle."
And in the context
of online communities . . . let's just say that
there
are several reasons to post in rhetorical
verse in such
a context . . . and there are many
benefits from a practical point
of view . . . which I
won't go into tonight. <smile>
But in any
case, good to see your friendly face . . . even if
it
is an exceptionally lazy one.
<ewg>
Later.
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Don't want to upset you Forensic
Poetry
| Posted by:
glow - Mar 28, 2002, 8:36
PM |
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I just have one more
lesson about word stress and sentence stress that I
learned in my Teaching Pronunciation
class:
Rhythm:
Depending upon the rhythm
in poetry, the rhythm will throw the word stress and
sentence stress off.
Another very long note
about word stress:
A syllable consists of a vowel
or continuant sound (r, l, m, n) alone or combined with
a consonant or consonants.
A word containing
more than one syllable will then have one syllable with
primary stress (stressed the most) and the other
syllables may be marked as secondary stress (stressed,
but not as strong as primary stress) or marked as
unstressed.
An unstressed syllable has a reduced
vowel. A reduced vowel is shorter, lower in pitch,
softer and unclear. It kind of sounds like you're being
puched in the stomach, like an 'unh' sound. The reduced
vowel sound is called schwa and is represented by an
upside down 'e' in the International Phonetic Alphabet.
You may see this symbol in your dictionary, if it uses
the IPA.
I only bring this up because I want to
show you why I'm so confused about the stress in iambic
pentameter. I know the sentence stress in iambic
pentameter is unstressed-stressed (ka-BOOM), but the
word stress doesn't jive with regualar speech patterns
and rules. :o)
I guess we'll just have to agree
to disagree.
Do you still feel the love?
:o)
*glow*
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my final thought
| Posted by:
holywater - Mar 28, 2002, 8:21
PM |
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to strive for
excellence in verse is an admirable discipline,
but
inspiration comes from the heart which has it's own
purpose,
And it's own rules
Lovely sharing a
cuppa as usual...
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1) P.S. listening sure
| Posted by:
glow - Mar 28, 2002, 8:10
PM |
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Won't help me one bit,
you see
I think I'm tone deaf
2) The rules
of English
Stress I know quite well, but it's
The stress of poems
3) That don't mesh
with the
regular patterns of speech
The
rules are different
4) I know because
I
took linguistics class times three
not
boasting, just truth.
:o)
(All haikus for
obvious reasons :o))
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The END OF TEA TIME's now, and I go
POOF
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 8:09
PM |
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But if you have some
verse you'd like to leave
behind for me to ponder,
please feel free.
I will check back around Bronze
time midnight.
BLANK
VERSE
Ta ta for now, folks.
Is
there method to all this?
We shall see. Won't we?
<smile>
HAIKU
POOF
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oh goody
| Posted by:
holywater - Mar 28, 2002, 8:04
PM |
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so I'm free to throw
paper aeroplanes at the back of the class then?
Maybe
something will stick if I hang around long
enough
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Dear glow, as Tea Time gallops to an
end
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 8:02
PM |
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one thing about iambic
I would say:
The rhythm forces you to shift
around
the thing you want to say until it
"fits."
If this seems a strange waste of time,
it's not.
It is a useful exercise for
speech.
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1) I teach ESL
| Posted by:
glow - Mar 28, 2002, 8:01
PM |
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grammatical
suffixes
should never be stressed
2)
PUNCHes is correct
Sorry it is not
punchES
Because of E S.
:o)
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The punishment for failing to
conform
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:58
PM |
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to Tea Time rules is
that you won't acquire
the secret of the Slayer
Sonneteers.
Well, "what is that?" you ask. Well,
I won't tell
until you get your exercises
down.
<smile>
BLANK
VERSE
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I
get the accent thing
| Posted by:
holywater - Mar 28, 2002, 7:54
PM |
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you've got to say it
out loud,
So do I get chucked out yet or just a
D-?
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We all say Buffy's lovely, strong, and
fun.
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:53
PM |
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We ALL say BUF-fy's
LOVE-lly, STRONG, and
FUN.
BLANK
VERSE
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PUNCH-es or punch-ES? / Glow, think how
you say the word. / Put accent on
BOOM.
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:49
PM |
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HAIKU IN
TITLE LINE
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BUF-fy or bufFY? / Dear glow, that is the
question. / Put BUF on the BOOM.
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:46
PM |
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HAIKU IN
TITLE LINE
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1) Still here and
trying
| Posted by:
glow - Mar 28, 2002, 7:43
PM |
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working on a quatrain
dear
a dictionary...
2) I have with me
here
But a question about stress
Just look
at this please
(above form haikus)
For
ALL, buFFY is LOvely, STRONG and FUN,
High KICKS,
low PUNches, FLIPS and JUMPS, one STAKE
OR
kicks HIGH, punCHES low, FLIPS and
JUMPS, one STAKE
(Iambic pentameter, I think.
Incomplete quatrain I know, but I want to know if I'm on
the right path)
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Before I rose this morning from my
bed
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:40
PM |
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I grabbed a legal pad,
uncapped my pen
and pulled the sonnets linked to
from my head.
To waste fresh inspiration is a
sin. <smile>
IAMBIC PETAMETER
QUATRAIN
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The length, holy dear / is as long as
discipline / maintains a strong grip.
<smile>
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:36
PM |
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HAIKU IN
TITLE LINE
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OK
| Posted by:
holywater - Mar 28, 2002, 7:34
PM |
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This one is
simplest,
But how can darkness be chained,
It will
not last long
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A
note for glow, if you have not retired
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:32
PM |
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The secret of iambic
accents is
the dictionary. Have you got one dear?
<smile>
ka-BOOM ka-BOOM ka-BOOM ka-BOOM
ka-BOOM
Wherever in a word the accent
falls
you must align that accent with a
BOOM.
BLANK VERSE
I
hope that that is clearer than before.
And you will
not go screaming from my door.
IAMBIC
PETAMETER COUPLET
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Dear holywater, formal verse is "old" . .
.
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:27
PM |
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. . . and slayers,
watchers, vampires -- yes, Spike, too.
<g>
The discipline of slayers must be
built
by doing things that are not
natural.
BLANK VERSE
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yesss
| Posted by:
holywater - Mar 28, 2002, 7:23
PM |
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No room for modern
poetic form?
No ability to evolve...
I am the Dali
of poetry,
All structures must be pulled
down
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glow said iambic feet get her
confused.
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:20
PM |
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Does anybody else have
problems, too.
BLANK
VERSE
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In Kendra's honor, let us raise a toast .
. .
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:17
PM |
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. . . and to dear
Mister Pointy. Perfect gift
from slayer to a slayer.
Buffy's now.
BLANK
VERSE
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more haiku
| Posted by:
fiatlux - Mar 28, 2002, 7:14
PM |
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Fiatlux chuckles
F
P's poems make her laugh
Now she leaves -
goodbye!
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I
know I'm bad..........
| Posted by:
holywater - Mar 28, 2002, 7:14
PM |
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I'm under the dark
power of Spike
and it is gone midnight here...
I
can't help myself....
We had handcuffs
tonight!
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I
think I'll also talk iambic lines
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:12
PM |
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the line above and
this one is just that.
Blank verse is fine. That
means without the rhyme.
Iambic is required in
any case.
If you will count my syllables, there's
ten
per line. And ev'ry accent is in
place.
BLANK VERSE
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Random Haiku in honor of
Kendra
| Posted by:
fiatlux - Mar 28, 2002, 7:09
PM |
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Meet Mister
Pointy
He really gets in your heart
And turns it
to dust
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Dear holywater! / Do you ask for
exemption / from the rules for all?
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:09
PM |
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HAIKU IN TITLE
LINE
(eyebrow raises)
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Hi there
| Posted by:
holywater - Mar 28, 2002, 7:07
PM |
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Have I gone to the
bottom of the class?
More enthusiasm for Spike/JM
than iambric perameters?
I enjoyed your story about
JM
I can't cope with verse
Can I just go for
super-concise?
Think of it as a modern poetic
rythym
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Each topics your own. / If glow can quote
in haiku / more power to you.
<g>
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:07
PM |
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HAIKU IN TITLE
LINE
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What "IN" the Hellmouth / is going on at
Tea Time? / He mistyped above.
<g>
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:05
PM |
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NOTE: Haiku in
title line
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Glow takes a plush seat
| Posted by:
glow - Mar 28, 2002, 7:05
PM |
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Joining the esteemed
FP
Topic: Buffy quips
:o)
(form in
haiku)
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FOOTNOTES: PREVIOUS TEA TIME RELATED
LINKS
| Posted by:
forensicpopouri - Mar 28, 2002, 7:02
PM |
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3/20/02
Question for a Brit: When is Tea
Time?-tid=47101
3/22/02 Quote Of Joss Whedon Post
About The Bronze from 5/21/00 -
tid=48092
PREVIOUS TEA TIME
HOURS
3/20/02 tid=47264 #1 Tea Time! (Yanks steal
tea time from the British)
3/21/02 tid=47816 #2
"Consructive Praise" (What Do We Hold
Sacred?)
3/22/02 tid=48211 #3 Joss Whedon & The
Bronze
3/23/02 tid=48693 #4 Giles' Daylight Savings
Time (& naughty Sing-Along)
3/24/02 tid=49105 #5
DoubleMeat Morality
3/25/02 tid=49423 #6 If You Could
Speak One Haiku To Joss
3/26/02 tid=49999 #7 The
Powers That Tea Proclaim: Verse Only (Marsters
Encounter)
3/27/02 tid=50583 #8 All Musical
Buffy
PREVIOUSLY POSTED TEA TIME
SONNETS:
#1: BEYOND "NORMAL AGAIN" -
tid=46649
#2: RILEY & SAM'S GROWN-UP-ITUDE -
tid=47071
#3: WHAT DO WE HOLD SACRED? -
tid=47636
#4-7 WHY I POST IN SHAKESPEAREAN SONNETS
(4-sonnet
sequence)
PART
1 -
tid=48156
PART
2 - tid=48152
#8 DOUBLEMEAT MORALITY -
tid=49007
#9-12 ALL MUSICAL BUFFY (4-sonnnet
sequence)
PART
1 -
tid=50573
PART
2 - tid=50575
SATIRICAL SONG 3/23/02
Nude-Platoon Drill Sargeant Review of Season 6 ("Dead
Things") - tid=48604
HAIKU SEQUENCE
(OT) OSCAR "RACE" 3/25/02 -
tid=49359
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TeaTimeSunday
BOKE
